Archive for the 'florida' Category

Let’s get this show on the road AKA First stop: Florida

Sunday, February 17th, 2008


Daytona 500This felt strange; new territory.  Not the plane on which I found myself but the significance of where I was heading.  Ask any of my fellow passengers onboard that late-afternoon flight out of London Gatwick and they would have told you that our destination was Orlando, Florida.  I, on the other hand, would have given a different response: I had no idea of where I was going.  That flight was the first of many to come and I was barely able to contain my excitement as I sat and wondered where the journey would take me.I had booked that particular flight on a whim when, having joked with a friend about joining them at the Daytona 500, I learnt that the seat next to them remained unsold.  It suddenly became obvious what I should do and, within an hour, I had paid for the ticket and held reservations with Virgin Atlantic and Hertz.  The remainder of the plans had come together much later and almost by accident.  All I wanted was a flight to Singapore but it was cheaper to book a Round the World ticket; it seemed silly to waste an opportunity!

Although I have yet to give notice at work, speeding down the runway and taking to the air felt as if it marked the true beginning of my adventure.  I finished my complimentary Jack Daniels and Coke and pulled the huge printed itinerary from my jacket pocket; glancing down the list of destinations left my head in a spin.  I clicked the button above my head for an attendant and ordered another drink to help me get to grips with where I was heading.  As I opened the packet of pretzels and popped one of the freakishly hard pastries into my mouth I couldn’t help but wonder if it was symbolic: had I bitten off more than I could chew?

Taking twelve months off to go travelling isn’t unheard of but the truth of the matter is that it is usually the domain of students or those in their twenties.  Up until two of years ago I had made just one return journey on a commercial airline, I had only been out of work for six weeks of my life and, frankly, I was no longer in my twenties.  I knew that it would see quite a change in my life - why else would I have finally decided to follow a long-held dream to travel - but perhaps I had underestimated how big a test it would put me to.  Still, as a good friend always tells me, everything happens for a reason.

Same again!  The Mustang I had on my earier trip to FloridaTen hours after leaving the cold of the British winter, I found myself at the wheel of a white convertible Ford Mustang; I sported a big grin as I sped across the state on Interstate.  Was it the comfortable heat of a Florida evening, the beautiful moonlit sky all around or the fact that I was heading to meet up with an old friend that left me with such a feeling of contentment?  It was likely to have been a mix of all three.

Tired from the long day I was relieved when, after a couple of hours behind the wheel, I finally pulled to a stop in the parking lot off University Parkway, Sarasota.  I closed the roof of the car and made my way to the Coach and Horses bar where Kate and her husband, Nick, were hard at work.  The bar had always offered a great atmosphere - especially the welcome I would receive from Kate and Nick - but this evening there was a very special atmosphere.  It was quite obvious that the two of them would soon be joined by a new addition and I don’t mean a new member of bar staff.  I have been lucky enough to have known Kate for several years but at no point during that time have I ever looked at her as someone who could keep quiet.  So it would come as quite a shock to walk inside and see her grinning back at me from behind the bar: five-months pregnant.  Although I had been awake for well over 24-hours by the time that it finally drew to a close, it would be quite an evening: helped along nicely by their refusal to accept me settling my bar bill.

Any hopes of an early recovery from my jetlag were dashed when I was woken early the next morning for our drive to SeaWorld.  I really didn’t want to appear ungrateful for our planned day out but, as we retraced my route of the previous evening, it struck me that perhaps I should have spent the night in an Orlando motel and, fresh from a good nights sleep, met up with the pair at the breakfast table.   In the end, whatever the logistics of my arrival, we enjoyed a great day out and I gleefully grabbed the opportunity to wander around in shorts and T-shirt with both hands.  As we sat down to eat later that evening it was very nearly Kate who was grabbing something with both hands: the neck of our server.  Thankfully she refrained.  She really was a changed woman!

SeaWorld SeaWorld

I would spend the next three days lounging around the apartment, catching up with Kate, drinking the profits of the Coach and Horses and generally being lazy.  Having spent every spare hour of the past month planning for my big trip it was great to find myself forced to slow down and take stock of the situation that I had been rushing headlong into.  I showed Kate my itinerary and she seemed somehow more excited about it than I did; it still felt a little surreal.  By my third day in Sarasota it felt like time to give my hosts some space so I woke early and hopped into the car for a day trip down to Sanibel Island.  By the end of the day, as I sat and watched the sun set over the 14-miles of shell-strewn beach, it was finally sinking in: this would be my life for the next year.  It was a path that I had chosen to go down and to sit around feeling nervous about it and worrying about what might or might not happen was plain stupid.  All of a sudden I had dispensed with the doubts and couldn’t wait to get on with my travels.

Kate and Nick Lou the dog!

After a final night in Sarasota it was time to leave one final time and, after breakfast at the ‘Broken Egg’, I found myself crossing the state on Interstate 4 once more.  I soon arrived back in Orlando but, unlike most of my compatriots who flock to the area, I had no intention of visiting any of the sprawling theme parks which dot the area.  My aim was to take advantage of the strength of the Pound and stock up with the outdoor clothes and camping supplies that I would need over the coming months.  My first stop would be the huge International Drive outlet mall where I enjoyed some success but it wasn’t until I arrived at the huge outdoor store in Altamonte Springs that I really struck gold.  I spent less than two-hundred Dollars but emerged, a full hour later, with armfuls of bargains and a feeling of contentment.

Time was pressing on so I checked myself into the nearby Holiday Inn for the night.  It was here that all the planning and booking of the past month finally started to come together.  Having booked my flights several weeks ago, it came as something of a relief when I was finally able to get the event website to work long enough for me to lay my hands on some very good tickets for the Singapore Grand Prix.  As I clicked on the confirm button I could feel eyes on me and looked around to find the desk clerk grinning at me across the hotel lobby.  He apologised for staring and went on to explain how he was a huge race fan and, being a native Singaporean himself, was desperate to return home for the race himself.

It should have felt odd that a stranger was taking such an interest in my plans but we were soon chatting away about the race, his family and his reasons for leaving the country.  When I joked that I might just have to go and stay with his family, due to the lack of sensibly priced hotel rooms, he smiled and beckoned me over to his desk.  With the click of a few keys he managed to achieve what I had spent a month failing to do.  Initially the cost for three nights in the Atrium SIngapore were coming back at the same rates as I had been quoted previously but, when he suddenly entered his staff discount code, the cost plummeted from  4,000 Singapore Dollars to less than half that figure.  As he turned to me with a knowing smile I could have kissed the man but, although it was Valentines Day, I resisted the temptation which was probably a good thing as he might not have gone on to give me a voucher for a free breakfast in the hotel restaurant.  It had been a very fruitful evening and the relief to finally have my plans for that leg of the trip finalised set me up nicely for the final few days in Florida.

Tico Warbird Museum Tico Warbird MuseumTico Warbird Museum Tico Warbird Museum

I followed a long lie-in with a huge complimentary breakfast before making my way towards Titusville.  I had previously arranged to meet up with Simon and Tabby at the Manatee Hammock Campground on the outskirts of town where we planned to watch the launch of the Space Shuttle from just across the Indian River.  Unfortunately, thanks mechanical gremlins, our plans had been thwarted so I spent the afternoon exploring the nearby Valiant Air Command Warbird Museum instead.  I found the ten-acres of old warplanes a fascinating stop but was particularly fascinated by the restoration area where volunteers were working to restore a WW II bomber.

American Police Hall of Fame & Museum American Police Hall of Fame & Museum

I kept half an eye on the time and, aware that we had agreed to meet at 3pm, soon found myself having to leave a museum that is so unfairly overlooked thanks to its far better known neighbour: the Kennedy Space Center.  I checked in at the campground and put my tent up but, when I returned from a walk through the area, there was still no sign of the others so I decided instead to go in search of a grocery store.  When I returned - the back seat of the car loaded with barbeque food and beer - I found that I still alone so I took myself down the street to the nearby American Police Hall of Fame.  I hadn’t expected to be very interested - it just seemed a good way to kill time whilst I waited for the others - but was surprised to discover a fascinating museum lurking behind those inauspicious doors.  I was even more surprised to be ushered out of the doors as it closed three hours later.

American Police Hall of Fame & Museum American Police Hall of Fame & Museum

On my arrival back at the campground I finally met up with Simon and Tabby.  They had been joined by Tabby’s mum and boyfriend so it was quite a party and it wasn’t altogether a surprise when a park ranger stopped by around 9pm and invited us to be quiet.  What did come as something more of a surprise was, having turned in for an early night shortly afterwards, I was woken by a commotion outside a couple of hours later.  I unzipped the door of my tent and peered outside to see a police cruiser parked outside and Simon discussing the situation loudly with a particularly vociferous Sheriff.  Thinking (hoping) that I was imagining things I closed the door and went back to sleep.

Daytona BeachWhen I emerged from my tent this morning it was, with the exception of a few sickly looking faces, as if nothing at all had happened the previous evening.  It took a whole ten minutes before I finally asked, “Simon?  Was the Sheriff here last night?”  His response confirmed that I hadn’t been imagining things: it seems that they have a somewhat less relaxed view to people enjoying themselves in Florida than they do in the rest of the civilised world.  I can’t be certain how close we all came to being dragged from our tents to spend the night in a cell - knowing Simon, it was pretty close - but thankfully we retained our liberty long enough for all five of us to squeeze into their rental car and tackle the drive north to Daytona Beach.

The three of us who had eaten the fried chicken last night were looking a little worse for wear this morning and were rather less keen on a breakfast stop than the two who had eaten the salad.  I feel bad now that we condemned them to a sandwich from the nearby Exxon gas station but I guess that we made up for it when we made our way to the Italian restaurant opposite Daytona International Speedway this afternoon.  Having shared a huge meal we were ready to face the 190,000 sell-out crowd who had assembled for the 50th running of the ‘Great American Race’ as the Daytona 500 is now promoted.

We made our way through the trade stands towards the crowds who were forming to watch sculptors putting the finishing touches to a huge multi-coloured sand sculpture.  I bought a programme and, still feeling a little under the weather thanks to the dodgy chicken, decided to walk by the various bars as we made our way, soaking up the atmosphere as we walked, towards our seats alongside the safety fence at the bottom of the front stretch grandstand.

Daytona 500 Sand Sculpture Daytona 500

Nice as it was to sit and soak up the sun it was a relief when, at 3.30pm, the race finally got underway.  The colour and noise of the crowd at the start was almost enough to outdo the cars screaming past just inches away from us at speeds of 200mph.  But not even the large group of Dale Jr fans beside us could outdo the drama and excitement of the next 3 hours and 16 minutes of action on the track.  All too soon the race was over and, far worse than that, Kurt Busch had managed to push his teammate into the lead just as the chequered flag fell.  After three hours of cheering on Tony Stewart -demoted to third place by that late manoeuvre - I couldn’t help but feel robbed: I hadn’t come all this way to see Ryan Newman win.

Paddock in Daytona Carl Edwards

Matt Kenseth Kyle Busch!

Tonsy Stewart Jimmy Johnson

On any other trip you approach the last night with dread: it is always an anti-climax as you come to terms with having to return to your everyday life back home.  However this felt different:  as we made our way back towards the campground I couldn’t help smile.  I may be returning home tomorrow but I will only be there long enough to make final plans for the remainder of my year off.  I can’t wait to see how it all turns out!

Daytona 500 Daytona 500

Florida 2007: Day eleven

Monday, November 26th, 2007

Cocoa Beach PierI hate how the last day of a trip feels.  It sucks badly enough that you’ve got to head home - in this case with nothing to look forward to but a long cold winter - but it’s also a dead day.  With one eye on the time, and knowledge of just how expensive it’d be to miss boarding your flight, you can’t really do anything.  It’s quite tiresome and not a little stressful.

Rather than fight it I decided on a change of tack and decided to go for a nice lie-in and, just as I was about to leave my motel room, I said sod it and flicked on HBO instead.  I spent another couple of hours watching some dreadful TV movie but it was actually really nice to just slow down and chill out a little after a hectic 10 days.

Just as the movie ended the maid knocked on the door so I head first to the beach and then to Cocoa Beach pier.  But that feeling of restlessness returned so there was nothing else to do but head off to the airport.  It was a bit of a ‘nothing’ end to another eventful holiday but I couldn’t help but smile to myself as I sat in the departure lounge.  It had been my third trip to the States this year and I suddenly felt like quite the traveller.  This time last year I’d never flown anywhere alone so this year had been quite an achievement for me.

The fun, of course, didn’t end with getting on the plane.  Oh no.  I had a connection to make in Miami and I had just an hour to make it.  When they announced that our flight was going to be an hour and a half late departing I had visions of spending the night sleeping on the floor of Miami Airport.  Nice as Miami Airport undoubtedly is, I have to confess that didn’t appeal much.   We finally took off and made our way, in a very bumpy fashion, down the coast to Miami. 

Shortly before landing there was an announcement from the purser who apologised for the delay and offered information for passengers with connections to make.  She asked that people whose journey was ending in Miami remain in their seats and let us off first and then announced that arrangements had been made for a golf cart to be waiting for me as I left the aircraft and this would speed me to the London flight on the other side of the terminal.  I felt very important all of a sudden!  We did indeed speed through the airport - I was impressed with the drivers abilities, I’m sure he has a possible future ahead of him in Nascar - and, despite me having to repeatedly shout at the morons who would continually walk in front of us, we were soon at the correct gate.

I ran onto the aircraft and, as I made my way to my seat, I could sense all eyes were on me.  They’d held the aircraft for me and, even before I took my seat, the doors were closed and we were backing off the gate.  Now I know what it must feel like to travel in First Class!  Shortly after takeoff the drinks trolley came round and I asked for a Jack Daniels and Coke.  Two miniatures and two cans of Coke were thrust into my hands and payment refused with a smile. 

God bless American Airlines.

Florida 2007: Day ten

Sunday, November 25th, 2007

Welcome to Kennedy Space CenterAfter a bite to eat on the forecourt of a local gas station it was keep an appointment with Kennedy Space Center.   I have to confess that I’d never really held much of a fascination with space travel but KSC was somewhere that I’d always wanted to visit.  I’d first been to Florida with friends six years ago but it seems spending yet another day doing exactly what they wanted to do (theme parks) was far more important than visiting KSC.  I guess you could say my visit was somewhat overdue.

First piece of advice I have for anyone else visiting is keep a very keen eye out for the sign to the visitor center and be careful not to drive on past.  The second piece of advice is, if you do miss the turn, try really, really hard not to drive straight up to the gatehouse at the entrance to secure area.  They, as I found when I did just that, don’t like that very much.  At least the guy with the big gun who shouted at me gave me that impression.   Officious tit.

Having finally found my way to the visitor center I was pleased to discover the staff there far more friendly and helpful.  Until I arrived I still didn’t really understand how the tours worked and what exactly I had signed up to but the girl in the ticketing booth kindly explained that the Nasa Up Close tour that I had booked was the best tour (more luck than judgment on my part!) and suggested that she bump me forward from my 1.50pm slot to the first departure of the day.  I was happy to take her advice and, after a brief wander around the main area, I was pleased that I did as I boarded a very quiet tour bus and headed out into the very secure area that I had tried to access just an hour ago.

I’d been told the place was built on a huge scale but the sheer size of the place still surprised me.  The first stop was only just across the causeway where astronauts once dared each other to push their Corvettes (given to them by a local Corvette dealer who saw the PR benefits of astronauts rolling round in their cars) faster and faster until they ‘got air’ over the crest.  It was hard to believe that people pay fortunes to sit at that tiny grandstand and ‘watch’ the Shuttle launch as the Shuttle Atlantis was barely visible on the horizon.  Yes, it sure was built on a huge scale!

From there we made our way past the huge Vehicle Assembly Building, past the tracks where the Mobile Launcher Platform ferries the Shuttle to the launch pad, past the point where the regular tour ends and onwards.  Onwards and onwards some more.  Finally we arrived at a viewing area adjacent to the Atlantic Ocean which was the closest the public are allowed to the Shuttle whilst it was sat on its launch pad.  We were quite a way from the actual site but, even from where we were, it was an impressive sight and, one I was surprised to say, which stirred the emotions a little.  For someone that had never had any real interest in space before I was somewhat surprised and I knew that I had to find a way to return and see a launch for myself.

Vehicle Assembly BuildingWe then hopped back on the bus and headed back towards the visitor center.  Thankfully we had a few more stops before we ended the tour back there, the first being a stop outside the Vehicle Assembly Building for a photo opportunity.   Then it was down to the huge (15,000ft long, 300ft wide) Shuttle Landing Facility where the orbiter returns after their mission.  This really summed up the scale of the place to me.  Amazing.

We were then transported to the Saturn 5 building where, after a pretty average recreation of an Apollo launch which would have been more at home along the road at Disney, we exited the movie theatre to be greeted with one of the most surprising sights.  I’ll not ruin it for anyone who hasn’t been.  Needless to say, if you have been, you’ll have been as amazed as I was.  Awesome is an overused word but, well, there is simply no other word for it.  I could only imagine the excitement that these launches caused back in the day and, as I wandered amongst the other exhibits, I found myself wishing I’d had the opportunity to experience it.

One final stop awaited us: the International Space Station Center.  By now though I was getting hungry and a little tired so I am afraid to say that I rushed my stop here a little.  I knew as I boarded the bus back to the visitor center that I should have taken more time to explore this area but I needed food.  Badly!    Once I’d eaten I made my way to the Space Mirror Memorial to those lost in the pursuit of space flight, found a quiet corner, sat myself down and contemplated things whilst I enjoyed the sunshine.   I spent the rest of the afternoon exploring the other attractions clustered around the visitor center.

I had arrived at KSC when it first opened this morning and it was now nearing closing time.  I hadn’t even begun to scratch the surface of what they had to offer there and, although it was quite expensive to visit, I would wholeheartedly recommend it to anyone visiting Florida - an absolute must see. 

Then it was time to leave.  Back to Cocoa Beach and back to the Motel 6 for the evening.  It has been an amazing day… well worth the wait!

Kennedy Space Center Atlantis on launch pad

Florida 2007: Day nine

Saturday, November 24th, 2007

Saying goodbye to Lou!I was supposed to get up early this morning and head off to Daytona Beach to meet up with an old ‘friend of a friend’ who I’d not seen for several years.  We’d arranged to meet up and share a couple of beers at the intriguing sounding ‘Turkey Trot’ at Daytona International Speedway.  Rather foolishly I’d given in to the temptation to stay at the bar last night rather longer than I should.  In the end I finally got back to the apartment at some time after 3am and decided then that I would set off to Daytona a little later than planned.  The idea was to arrive in time to meet up with Ollie for dinner but, when I woke at midday, the plan changed again.  No Turkey Trot for me this year… I hope that Ollie understands!

Nick had headed back to work again so Kate and I went to Perkins for breakfast.  It was most agreeable and set me up nicely for the day ahead.  After breakfast we drove to the bar to collect Kate’s car and ended up helping a guy outside the bar get his car running.  It summed up the attitude of the people that I had met; where in England people would just walk by, here in Florida people were willing to do what they could to help.  I liked that a lot.

We all said our goodbyes and, I have to confess, I had a real lump in my throat and drove off with a flourish (or rather a burnout on the wet parking lot!)  I had arrived in Florida expecting not to be welcomed by Nick but left feeling that I’d made new friends.  I’ll miss them all and might just have to take Nick up on his offer of returning soon.

By now it was getting on for 4pm so I put the pedal to the metal and headed towards my destination for tomorrow: Kennedy Space Center.  I had no idea where I was staying so, when I saw a sign for a Tourist Info Center as I passed Lakeland I decided to swing on by in the hope that they could offer a lead on a nice state park where I could camp for the evening.  It proved to be a surreal experience as the guy running the place refused to let me leave before he showed me his entire (very large) stamp collection!  He did eventually furnish me with a brochure listing all the state parks in Florida and I left as quickly as I could before I was taken hostage and confined to a life in the store room.

I stopped for gas a while down the road and took the opportunity to peruse the state park brochure over a bite to eat.  Unfortunately there was little suitable so I decided instead to head on past Orlando and see what I could find in Cocoa Beach where I had planned to visit the huge Ron Jons Surf Shop.  After arriving in town, and doing everything I wanted to do, I settled on a Motel 6 for the evening.  I tend to avoid these budget hotels as I object to bed bugs but I, have to say, this place is very clean and well maintained and you can’t argue with its proximity to the beach.  A real bargain.

Florida 2007: Day eight

Friday, November 23rd, 2007

Cool cat!I was able to enjoy a lie-in this morning but I felt so sorry for Nick who had to be in work at something horrible like 0700. I’d like to think he made it on time but I have no idea as I slept right through and didn’t surface until mid morning. When I finally did wake up, I couldn’t wait to get in the car and head on out. Katie and I were off to Lowry Park Zoo for the day!

I hadn’t been to the zoo for years and years - although it was something that Katie and I said we’d do back in the UK – but, when she left the UK, my excuse to go and hang out at the zoo for the day left with her. I thought it only right that we should take the opportunity to right this terrible wrong!

I’m sure no zoo is ever going to be very popular with the environmentalists (the clue is in last ten letters) but Lowry Park Zoo, despite being voted #1 Family Friendly Zoo, has come in for particular criticism over the years. They claim that the animals are not well looked after and that their living conditions are not acceptable. They point to an incident in 2006, when a 14-year old tiger was shot after escaping from her pen, as proving their claims. The zoo has spent a large amount of time and money improving conditions for the animals in recent years and I looked forward to seeing for myself.

For the first (and, as it turned out, only) time on this trip, we had a few problems with the satnav directions and we did several laps of the industrial wasteland surrounding Ybor City. We both turned our noses up a little at the place but, it turns out, it’s actually quite a draw. I struggled to get my head round this concept when I was told but, to be fair, maybe we didn’t go down every road. I’m going to make a point of stopping by next time I’m in the area to see if there actually was something that I missed!

Katie gets festive  What's going on here?

When we reached the zoo we struggled to park the car as the lot was rammed solid – surely a good sign – before handing over our money (quite a lot of it) and heading off to see the animals. I was particularly looking forward to seeing the turtles and the big cats but I loved it all. The elephants put on a show for us – I thought there was going to be violence for a bit there – although I don’t think it’s unfair to say they smelt pretty bad! I got to feed a giraffe which, even though it cost me three bucks for the pleasure, was pretty cool it has to be said. We were struggling to work out exactly where we were and where we wanted to go as there was just so many animals to see so we decided to get our bearings by taking a ride on the chairlift – another five bucks – where we finally got a grasp on just how big the place was.

Penguins  Look over there... Giraffe Elephant

A number of hours later we decided to head off back to the car – tired but happy – it had been a really good day; we’d had some great weather and seen some cool animals but, best of all, I’d finally got to catch up with an old friend over a year since I’d last seen her. It hadn’t been a cheap day by any means but we couldn’t resist stopping at the gift shop as we left (you really thought they’d miss another opportunity to make some money out of us?!) where we picked up a little present for Nick who was working both his and Katies shift at the bar, as well as a little souvenir for me!

Tropicana Field I couldn’t go to Tampa and miss the opportunity to tick another ballpark of my list so we headed towards Tropicana Field in St Petersburg. The satnav worked just fine this time but, other than that, the plan was a total flop as the place was completely closed down and locked up. Even the shop was stripped bare and empty. It almost looked as if the tenants had done a moonlight flit! Damn them – the opportunity to pick up a Florida Marlins baseball would have to wait for another day.

We headed back towards Sarasota across the new Sunshine Skyway Bridge – the worlds longest bridge with a cable-stayed main span. It was a beautiful spectacle to watch the sun set across Tampa Bay as we crossed the bridge and I put my foot down to get to the other side (5.5 miles is a long way!) in the hope of getting a photo with the sun setting behind the bridge. We finally reached the other side and pulled off the highway onto the Skyway Fishing Pier – ingeniously constructed from the approach road to the original bridge. We never got that photo but it was good to get out of the car and marvel at the sheer scale of the bridge that I’d first seen back at home on the Discovery Channel.

After stopping at the apartment to take Lou for walkies we drove down to the bar where both Nick and Kate work. He’d been working since 7am this morning and, after I led him astray the previous evening, he was looking shattered. Katie dived behind the bar to help him out but he was kept busy until closing time whilst I sat on the other side of the bar drinking his beer and getting to know the locals. I felt somewhat guilty but I was, yet again, made so welcome that the feeling soon passed. It was soon silly o’clock the next morning and we were closing the bar up for the night. Even then though he didn’t slow down; offering lifts to his kitchen staff and making sure they got home okay.

How ruuuude! Nick

I had come to Florida expecting not to like Nick for having taken my friend away from me but I could see already that she’d done exactly the right thing in relocating. She’d found herself a good man, some great friends and the weather simply fantastic. I was pleased for her but, as I lay in bed that night, I couldn’t help but think… I could see myself living here. But that was just one of those things you feel whilst you’re on holiday. Wasn’t it? I guess we’d have to see…